The big interview

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When Ken Livingstone's people heard in September that Boris Johnson was to be his Conservative opponent in the mayoral election, there was widespread rejoicing.

After all, the politician dubbed BoJo was better known for not combing his hair, getting fired for lying about an affair and offending the entire population of Liverpool, than for his contribution to government policy.

But at least one man knew the choice of Johnson was not good news.

Livingstone, who is standing for his third four-year term, recalls: "I said to all my staff: ‘This is the most serious challenge we face because this isn't a world where everyone sits around talking about politics and ideology like 30 years ago'.

"This is a world where more people watch Celebrity Big Brother than watch every political programme put together. If you're a celebrity, if all people have seen is that you are on Have I Got News For You and you made them laugh, this is – in the modern world – as important as policies. So I've always taken him seriously."

Livingstone's judgment has been borne out by the events of the campaign. Not only has Johnson's celebrity worked to his advantage, but  he was kept away from danger,  trained and reined-in by his spin doctor Lynton Crosby, while boned up on detail, and has proved to be a disciplined and energetic campaigner.

Livingstone's other disadvantage is that, while his opponents can produce shiny new policy initiatives, he has to compete on his record.

That record includes advances such as four consecutive 5 per cent annual falls in the crime rate, the opening of the East London line extension and the extension of the DLR to Woolwich, but these have been achieved on the back of council tax and fare increases.

And several of his most attractive election promises do not give him an edge.

When Livingstone talks about spending £39bn on the transport network over the next decade, £1bn on 50,000 new affordable homes over the next three years, recruiting 1,000 more policemen and spending £59m on youth services – he can rightly boast of his effectiveness in negotiating funds from central government.

"I never see a government minister without asking for money," he says. "I'm sort of the Oliver Twist of the Labour Party, you know. And we've got billions out of them."

What he cannot deny is that all this money is available not just to him, but to whoever sits in City Hall after Thursday's election.

Where he is strong, however, is in pulling apart his opponents' proposals. He is particularly devastating when it comes to Johnson's idea of coming up with a no-strike deal with Tube union the RMT and his promise to reclaim for the Met cash confiscated from drug dealers.

Johnson told thelondonpaper yesterday that he planned to offer the RMT independent binding arbitration in return for a no-strike deal.

There seems little prospect of him pulling this off, however. "They [the RMT] always made it absolutely clear they would go on strike to prevent a no-strike deal and unless you can get Parliament to impose it, that's it," says Livingstone. "There's a no-strike law on the underground in New York but they still go on strike. It just gives you a messy complication of having to niggle a judge to not send them to prison and make it worse."

Livingstone goes on to claim that, if you compare his six years in control of the Tube with the previous 12, days lost in strike action are 6 per cent of what they were.

He says the key to this is his refusal to bow to strikers' demands. "I established a rule that if a trade union goes on strike on the Underground they never get anything after the strike that wasn't on the table before.

"Gradually this dawned on them. If they go on strike, they lose a day's pay and they end up with the deal they had before. Never once has a strike resulted in any benefit to the strikers."

He is equally emphatic on the retrieval of drug money. Johnson has said: "London police should know that when they seize such assets they'll be allowed to use it to the benefit of Londoners".

But Livingstone claims no one can improve on what he has already done in this area.

"The money technically belongs to the Government but we lobbied them to give us half of what they collect and we spend it on exactly those things," he says.

He adds that he would lobby for the other half but accepts that, as London-based Mr Bigs sell their product all over the country, no Home Secretary would hand over 100 per cent of the cash.

Under Livingstone, the number of police employed by the Met has gone up from 25,400 to 31,500 and there are 4,500 PCSOs. He is scornful of Johnson's plan to hire 440 PCSOs to patrol buses and to put himself in charge of the body that oversees the Met.

"The truth is, having another 500 PCSOs won't stop teenagers killing each other any more than which politician chairs the Metropolitan Police Committee," he argues. "What you've now got to do is tackle the causes of this epidemic.

"If you examine the profile of these kids, they're all kids with no prospects at all. Most of them were excluded from school, and they then hang around on the streets.

"The only thing around on the streets is the gang and that's why we got this £79 million out of the Government and the LDA to double the level of youth provision, so you can get them out of the gangs into structured activities in the evenings and give them real role models.

"Most of the young boys doing the killing have not had a male role model they can identify with who is successful. The only one they see as successful is the guy running round in the big car who's selling drugs."

That said, there will be a stick with the carrot. Following the success of the Tube's zero tolerance approach to graffiti, Livingstone wants the police to get tough with other anti-social offences.

"I want to start seeing a zero tolerance on the streets," he says. "The police see someone drop litter, they book 'em.  Spitting, you book 'em. Cycling on the pavements, you book 'em."

Bearing in mind that last threat, Boris had better watch out if he loses on Thursday.